The Two-Hundred-Seventy-Seventh (Eternal Torment?)

I don’t know if you’ve been seeing the flurry of activity surrounding a recent podcast done by Kirk Cameron where he talks about his view on hell.  It’s caused quite a stir because he poked the hornet’s nest, so to speak, on a topic that has long been a debate in Christianity.  Any time a celebrity like Kirk comes out and makes statements, it seems like people come out of the woodwork to either speak against them because they don’t agree or to support them because they do agree, since they not only have the potential to gain at least a portion of the massive audience the celebrity already has, but they also feel an obligation to refute what they don’t agree with in order to prevent more people from believing it.

Our goal this week is obviously not about gaining an audience, because our weekly, relatively private newsletter does not have that as a focus.  We’re about finding the truth, so we’re going to take a look at the topic Kirk discussed and see what scripture says about it in an attempt to determine our own view.  At this point, given the number of studies we’ve done and the number of times we’ve talked about studying for ourselves, it’s probably needs not to be said, but even (or maybe even especially!) when a celebrity that we feel some sort of connection to says something we should study it for ourselves with scripture in order to make our own determination with the help of the Holy Spirit.

As we identified, this topic has been debated for a long time and part of the reason for that is because of the language used in scripture to talk about it.  The question is whether or not the final judgment of man will result in eternal torment for those that were wicked, unfaithful to YHWH, and evil during their lives.  The debate comes in because there is language in scripture talking about eternal fire, eternal torment, and other eternal things that suggest such a judgment.

We’ll certainly get into those verses this week to see what they actually say, but first we need to remind ourselves of what scripture calls various places to make sure we’re all clear on what’s being talked about where.  We’ll also use the Hebrew versions of scripture we’ve been looking at in our studies to see if there’s any additional information to be gained there.

We need to revisit the two places that are typically associated with death and judgment because, as we’ve identified previously, the English translations of scripture sometimes use their names interchangeably when the underlying text does not.  The two places are death and hell.  Those are the English words used for them.  In Greek they are Hades and Gehenna, respectively, and in Hebrew they are Sheol and Gei-Hinnom, respectively.  

In our study on death, we talked about Sheol, and since the very beginning it has always been the place where people go after they die physically.  As we know from our study, that changed once Yeshua was resurrected because He not only lived sinless, and therefore death had no legal right to hold him, but His death also became our death, and therefore we are able to be with YHWH and Yeshua once we die physically, rather than separate from Them in Sheol due to our sins.

Gei-Hinnom, on the other hand, is a much different place.  The name given to it is from an actual location from Israel’s history, and it was a location associated with very morbid events.  It is the Valley of Hinnom, or the Valley of the Sons of Hinnom, and in it, Israel did some horrendous things as a part of their idolatry.

We first see this valley in scripture during a description of the promised land and the territories given to the various tribes of Israel.  The very first reference, talking about Judah’s inheritance, tells us it is a valley adjacent to Jerusalem (Joshua 15:8).  

Later, we see that it is associated with child sacrifice.  Israel, throughout its history, adopted pagan, idolatrous practices where they would sacrifice their children to a false god, usually called Molech.  They did this by “passing” them through the fire, which means burning them to death.

They built this sacrificial altar, calling it Topheth, in the Valley of Hinnom (2 Kings 23:10, 2 Chronicles 28:3, 2 Chronicles 33:6, Jeremiah 7:31, Jeremiah 32:35).  Topheth then became synonymous with death (Jeremiah 19:11), and the valley also was called the Valley of Slaughter (Jeremiah 7:32).  Clearly, this valley was associated with torment and pain, not only for the children who were sacrificed but also the parents who gave those children up during this ritual.  

It makes sense then, that YHWH would call the place of torment and pain for the wicked the same name as this valley.  This is not a unique thing in scripture, and it is confirmation of His pattern.  We see the same thing in Revelation when the third messenger of the bowls of wrath talked about YHWH giving the wicked blood to drink because they had shed the blood of saints and prophets (Revelation 16:5-6).  YHWH made the connection that those who live wickedly will end up in a place associated by name with an actual place where some of the most wicked things had been done by the people.

As we can see, Sheol, which is the place of the dead, a holding place if you will, is much different from Gei-Hinnom, which is a place of judgment.  That’s not to say there isn’t some sort of torment happening in Sheol.  We know from our study on death that Yeshua talked about the wicked that are in Sheol being tormented (Luke 16:19-31).  These verses are just one example of where some English translations translated the Greek word Hades to hell rather than death, which confuses these locations in people’s minds.

I hope that is sufficient review of the difference between death and hell, because now we’re going to get into the topic at hand.  There are a few verses that are used as a basis for the idea of eternal torment, along with the general language of “eternal” being used in other verses.  The thing is, we have to be very clear in identifying what is actually being called, or is being implied as, eternal.

The first reference we’ll look at is when Yeshua talks about hell, which is recorded in Greek as Gehenna so we know this is actually referring to hell rather than death.  He says the wicked’s “worm” never dies there (Mark 9:47-48).  He’s quoting from Isaiah here, and from Isaiah’s verse we can see some additional context of what He’s talking about (Isaiah 66:24).  

The question is, what is this worm?  The language is clearly suggestive of it being eternal because it never dies, but does it have to do with the person themselves or is it something else?  I mean, when have you ever seen a person being referred to in scripture as a worm?

The other aspect of this quote that is eternal is the fire.  It says the fire will never be quenched, again suggesting some eternality of not only the fire but a torment of the person in the fire.  However, as we’ll see is a theme, we must be very specific about what is actually being called, or alluded to, as eternal, and in this case it’s the fire and not the person in the fire.

If we go to the full statement from YHWH that is recorded in Isaiah, what we find is that the worm is not the person at all.  The worm is actually associated with the corpse of the person, and specifically the corpses of people that rebelled against Him.  This seems to make more sense, because we know that when any living being dies, whether animal or person, at some point worms, or maggots, arrive to break down the being and return it to the dust of the earth.  This was a consequence imposed by YHWH for the sin of Adam and Eve (Genesis 3:19).

There are two other aspects of this quote that are important to recognize as well.  First, with the imagery of a corpse being used we can see that the intention is to connect the message being given to a physical process that man is familiar with, and that physical process can help us understand more detail to the underlying spiritual message.  Namely, a corpse is something which no longer has a person attached to it.  The person is physically dead, and therefore his or her spirit/soul is not longer with the body.  That, by itself, is already indicative of the actual person not being tormented forever, because even if the corpse is there forever it does not have the person attached to it.

Second, the whole point of this imagery is that the people that are still alive are seeing these corpses of those who rebelled against YHWH (Isaiah 66:21-23).  The point is not in what’s happening to the corpses themselves, but in that the people coming to worship YHWH are seeing the corpses as a sort of warning or deterrent against rebellion.  They will be a “horror to all mankind.”

Already from this reference we can see that despite the understanding some have of these verses there is actually no reference to an eternal torment.  Yes, Yeshua connects the imagery of Isaiah to hell, Gei-Hinnom, but neither He nor the verse He’s quoting suggests that a wicked person’s ultimate judgment is eternal torment in hell.  The fire of hell is eternal, the worm that’s eating the corpse of the wicked person is eternal, and in fact, the corpse of the person may even be eternal (although the verse doesn’t say that), but nowhere does it say that the person themselves will being eternally tormented.

As you could probably guess, this isn’t the only verse used to justify a belief in eternal torment.  Again, in other verses, we see smoke rising eternally (Revelation 14:9-11) and eternal fire (Matthew 18:8, 25:41), but the eternal part of this language is not being associated with the individual themselves.  It’s being associated with the fire and the smoke.

There are, however, a couple verses that do associate eternality with an individual, so let’s look at those.  In the first, we have Yeshua talking about the consequences of the sheep actions versus the goat actions in His sheep and goats parable.  The goats, which represent the wicked, will go away into “eternal punishment” (Matthew 25:46).

On the face of it, it seems pretty clear.  The wicked will be punished eternally.  However, what does that actually mean?  You’ve got two aspects of punishment to think about.  This statement could be referring to either the punishment itself or the finality of the punishment.  In other words, is it talking about being punished with pain and suffering eternally, or is it talking about the result of the punishment lasting forever?

What’s interesting is that when we look at the Hebrew version of this verse, that part does not mention an eternal anything.  It simply says “these will go into the fire of Gei-Hinnom.”  I believe the Greek translators, similar to what we saw when we studied the letter from James, modified the verse when translating into the Greek based on their understanding of what it was saying.  They took the eternality of the righteous going into everlasting life (which is light/glory in the Hebrew and is connected to Daniel 12:2-3), and applied it to the punishment of the wicked.  Based on that, it seems the verse is referring to the eternal finality of the punishment.

Before you gawk at using the Hebrew version to try and understand this verse though, there is evidence elsewhere in the Greek scripture to support this interpretation.  The other verse talking about eternality associated with an individual was written by Paul in his second letter to the believers in Thessalonica.  In it, we can see not only what the eternal aspect of the punishment is, but also know that this was the understanding and belief of the Jews at the time.  Paul was a Pharisee by his own admission (Philippians 3:5), so he studied the scriptures in depth for himself as well as being knowledgeable of the Jewish interpretations of scripture.

In his letter, Paul states that the wicked, those who do not know and obey YHWH and Yeshua, will suffer the penalty of “eternal destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9).  He goes on to say this destruction is a separation from Their presence and glory.  We can see then, that it’s the destruction that is eternal and not the torment.  While the fire, the smoke, and the worm are eternal, the wicked person is not eternally tormented as the consequence for their disobedience and rebellion.  They are ultimately eternally destroyed, never to return or be resurrected again.  

This interpretation follows along with other verses as well.  Yeshua talked about the body and soul being destroyed in Gei-Hinnom (Matthew 10:28).  In the Greek version of Revelation, the lake of fire associated with Gei-Hinnom is the second death (Revelation 20:14, 21:8), and by nature death is an instantaneous event even if it does have a lasting result.

What about the eternal torment of Satan, the beast, and the false prophet though (Revelation 20:10)?  Besides the fact that these are not of mankind, and that as we’ve already seen there is no language associating eternal torment with man, we find something interesting regarding this question in the Hebrew version of Revelation.  What we actually find is that they are thrown into the fire of Sheol rather than a lake of fire.  In fact, there is no lake of fire anywhere in the Hebrew version!  

To make it even more interesting, the Hebrew version of Revelation actually has Gei-Hinnom being thrown into fire after all the wicked are judged!  How can someone be eternally tormented in hell if hell itself is destroyed at some point?!  Clearly, through all this, we can see the proper interpretation of the final judgment of the wicked, according to scripture, is that they will be destroyed for eternity and not tormented eternally.  It’s the result of the punishment, the destruction, that lasts forever, not the actual act of the punishment.

I hope this helped you better understand what scripture says about the final judgment of the wicked, if it was unclear to you before.  Have a great week!  Shabbat shalom and YHWH bless you!  

-Rob and Sara Gene

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The Gospel

We are born sinful as a result of Adam and Eve's sin (Genesis 2:17, 3:6, 1 John 1:8)

The consequence of sin, which is unavoidable through our own works, is death (Romans 6:23)

Yeshua, the Son of YHWH, lived sinless and was put to death (Hebrews 4:15)

His death, therefore, cleanses us of sin that would have required our death

(2 Corinthians 5:21)

He rose on the third day (1 Corinthians 15:4)

Because of His resurrection, we are confident in our future resurrection and eternal life

(1 Corinthians 15:17-18, John 3:16)